From there they get into why agents act like relentless optimizers, not villains: the coding agent that exploited a Postgres CVE instead of asking for a password, the "make me coffee" problem, and how agentic search can leak sensitive data through a simple web query. Bill and Cal explain intent-based controls, why you need deterministic and LLM-based guardrails together, why your approved agents are a bigger risk than shadow AI, and why identity and authorization for agents has to become short-lived and scoped per session. Plus Cal's hottest take: we're going to need a lot more humans.
Chapters
00:00 Finally getting Bill and Cal on
00:34 Bill Gurling: infrastructure to cyber resilience
01:51 Cal Al-Dhubaib: data science in regulated industries
03:07 Curiosity, and the CISO who wouldn't give Joe Kali
04:31 Where do we put the buckets to catch the leaks?
05:17 The OpenAI and Hugging Face incident explained
08:52 The swarm: agents collaborating through Artifactory
10:01 Agents aren't evil, they're optimizers
12:08 A malicious package as a beacon
13:08 Agents that act like state actors
17:00 Human access without human judgment
18:10 The agent that hacked its own database
20:29 Threat actors vs misaligned agents
22:13 From deterministic to context-based controls
24:08 How agentic search leaks sensitive data
26:02 Determinism and LLMs: the right tool for the job
28:35 How you embed intent: natural language policies
33:28 Talking to machines in plain English
35:20 Horses, buggies and the first crosswalks
37:06 Rethinking identity for agents
38:17 Every platform shift changes how we secure it
41:23 Your approved agents are the bigger risk
43:39 Guardrails as the new proxy
45:35 What's next: dynamic, short-lived authorization
50:34 What's next: agent-to-agent handoffs
52:15 "We're going to need so many more humans"
52:29 Wrap-up
Rubrik: https://www.rubrik.com
Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@securityunfilteredpodcast
Show site: https://www.securityunfiltered.com
Affiliates
➡️ OffGrid Faraday Bags: https://offgrid.co/?ref=gabzvajh
➡️ OffGrid Coupon Code: JOE
➡️ Unplugged Phone: https://unplugged.com/
Unplugged's UP Phone - The performance you expect, with the privacy you deserve. Meet the alternative. Use Code UNFILTERED at checkout
*See terms and conditions at affiliated webpages. Offers are subject to change. These are affiliated/paid promotions.
Tesla Referral Code: https://ts.la/joseph675128
Follow the Podcast on Social Media!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secunfpodcast/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SecUnfPodcast